Smart Strategies to Advocate for Your Worth with Tessa Grashuis

Why are so many women working harder than ever but still underpaid?

Career strategist and former recruiter Tessa Grashuis joins me to unpack the hidden world of salary compression — what it is, how it shows up, and why it keeps talented professionals stuck. 

We talk about the smartest ways to negotiate at the offer stage, advocate for yourself inside your current role, and push back on outdated systems without blowing up your career. Tessa also shares what really happens behind the scenes in hiring and why persistence matters more than a single yes or no.

If you've ever felt deflated asking for a raise or nervous about negotiating, this episode will give you both the insight and confidence to fight for what you deserve.

Check out the detailed show notes (https://tarakermiet.com/podcast/) and leave your thoughts or questions about today's topic. 

To connect with Tessa:

• LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tessagrashuis/)
• TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@knowthycareer)
• Website (https://www.tessagrashuisagency.com/)

Need a little more balance and a lot more badass in your life? Check out my 1:1 coaching sessions designed to help you tackle your biggest challenges, manage stress, and create a personalized plan for success. Your first 30-minute session is free! Visit tarakermiet.com to get started. 

Want to turn your dreams into reality? Check out my 7 Days to Crushing Your Goals mini-course! This course is packed with practical lessons and hands-on activities designed to help you define your “why,” leverage your strengths, and take decisive action. By the end, you'll have a clear plan and the tools you need to crush your goals. Visit tarakermiet.com/crushyourgoals to join the course and start making things happen! 

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
• 4:59 Discussing Salary Compression
• 8:21 Strategies for Salary Negotiation
• 15:28 Negotiation Tips and Common Mistakes
• 24:48 Advocating for Raises in Current Roles
• 28:56 Embracing Discomfort and Using Your Voice
• 31:48 The Power of Repetition and Self-Advocacy
• 39:19 Navigating Toxic Work Environments
• 40:35 Mindset Shifts After Leaving Toxic Jobs
• 41:30 The Importance of Self-Advocacy and Support Systems
• 47:17 Personal Anecdotes and Final Thoughts

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Tara: All right, friends. Welcome back to the Balanced Badass Podcast. As you know, I'm your host, Tara, but today's guest is Tessa. So you have the t and t combo here. Tara and Tessa, we are coming at you, but Tessa is a former tech girly turned career strategist who's done her time on both sides of the hiring table, which I'm really excited to kinda dig into that a little bit more because I know a lot of you.

Are usually on one side of the table or the other, and we're trying to figure out our ways. But after a decade, recruiting at places like Zillow and fast moving startups, hiring over a thousand people in building talent programs from scratch, she hit her ceiling. She burned out like many of us, and saw firsthand how layoffs and toxic cultures really do keep women in particular.

Stuck. So now she's using that insider knowledge to help women make smarter, more strategic career moves without settling for less, which I think [00:01:00] we all need a little help in that area. So she's here to talk to us about salary compression. I'm sure we'll cover some self-advocacy pieces. And if I had to guess, we'll probably catch on to the emotional toll that just these toxic systems can have on us.

So without further ado, welcome to the Balanced Badass Podcast, my new friend.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Thank you so much, Tara. I'm so excited to be here. And I love the alliteration. It's just like the power of alliteration, the two Ts. Um, I just, I'm, I'm so excited to be here and chat with you.

Tara: Yeah. Awesome. Well, I always start my guest interviews with the same icebreaker question, and that question is, what is something that you are loving in your life right now?

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): I love this question. I think it's such a wonderful way to start a conversation because I just was like, oh my gosh. So many things. So I lived in Denver for the last 10 years and about a year [00:02:00] ago, my partner and I moved back home to Michigan where we're from. So we live in the Detroit area now, and something I'm just really loving is the se, like the seasons and the Midwestern spring.

So Denver is beautiful with the mountains and it's warm and sunny. growing up as a Midwestern girly, I just love the. Being able to watch the cheese, the, the seasons change and just like have the rain and watch things grow and come into spring and summer. And my, my window, I have a window that faces my, um, my backyard, right?

I get to see my garden and my trees and I'm really, I'm really enjoying that, finding joy in the little things and just. Being a part of this new, we've been here for almost a year and just being a part of this new space, this new city, and it's been lovely.

Tara: That's awesome. I live in North Carolina. We don't really get seasons where I live, um, so I definitely appreciate that. I'm originally from [00:03:00] Pennsylvania and fall is my favorite season and we rarely get it here, especially 'cause I'm on the coast. So it's usually like you get winter and you get summer, and by winter I mean.

Winter, you know, fake winter, but winter for here. But I totally get that. But I really appreciate the acknowledgement of like the little things. 'cause that's something that I really am trying to be more intentional about myself is I am one that tends to. Focus on all the crap going on and not the good stuff.

And so I have been in my journey of healing from burnout and just in general and self-improvement really have been trying to focus on that too. So I I really appreciate that and I think that's great. And I'm sure you right now are probably having much better weather than we are. 'cause it's like 90 degrees and humid and hot here right now.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Oh my gosh. Thoughts and prayers.[00:04:00] 

Tara: Thanks. The one good thing about having knee surgery is that I don't really go out and about too, too much right now, so at least I don't have to deal with that right now. So I wanna start our conversation by talking about salary compression because. Honestly, that's something that I'm personally interested in and just learning more about.

So my question for you is, how does it actually show up and what are some smart strategic moves that someone can make to get out of it without completely blowing up their career? Because a lot of times I'm working with folks that may not have the means to leave, but they. Know that they're worth more and deserve more.

How do they, how do they do that? How do they go through that process to make more strategic moves?

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yeah, and I really enjoy talking about salary [00:05:00] compression because I don't know about you, Tara, but when I started my career, that was not a term I was familiar

Tara: No.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): kind of thought like, you get a job offer, you come in maybe once a year or whatever, you know, the company recognizes you do good work, and they'll give you a raise, maybe a promotion, and we just all move on with our lives and. Not long into my career, I realized that, you know, that's not the case. It felt like a no brainer, but I just had never learned something like that before.

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): being a recruiter and on the other side of things, you know, advocating for new hire salaries, internal salaries for myself as well, and being privy to so much of the insider knowledge on how in tech we called them, compensation bans, and working with with finance.

Just the nuance of that was. Such an insightful experience. And so for anybody who's unfamiliar salary compression is, it happens and it shows up when newer hires come [00:06:00] in at the same or often, you know, sometimes higher salaries than longer term employees that are in similar roles. So anybody who's worked knows this is not something that's, you know, super uncommon and. I will say also as a quick PSA, when I say worth from here on out, I'm absolutely referring to professional value skills expertise. Your worth is inherent. There's definitely, you know, a need for us, especially women, to untether our self-worth

Tara: Yeah.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): jobs and income. And so I, I just wanted to provide that context going forward. Um, and so again, Sal going back, salary compression happens when there's that, that disconnect between, you know, newer employers, uh, newer employees, excuse me, and ones who've been there a little bit longer who aren't necessarily being paid what their, what their worth is anymore, and. Often it comes when a company [00:07:00] fails or makes little effort to keep up with market rates, cost of labor, cost of living. It happened a lot post pandemic because we saw such an explosion of everything, of prices really. I mean, just succinctly all of it

Tara: All the things.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): and for many different reasons, good intentioned or ill-intentioned companies. We're reluctant to keep up with that shift. Um, so compression or compensation quite literally compresses

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): My first recommendation is always to be proactive. One of the strongest moments in your career for salary negotiation is when you take on a new job that's you probably won't have. As much negotiating power at that company as you do when you fir, when you first come on board, because the company has already said, Hey, we want to hire you.[00:08:00] 

And at that point it's really in their best interest to, to at least negotiate with you a little bit because it's far more work and far more expensive for them to cut ties with you and start that hiring process over. So just know that a way to get ahead of compression. Is to advocate for yourself right from the beginning.

And if you haven't done that, don't freak out. Not all is lost. It's okay. It's common. Um, we, this is all like, you know, a, a learning process. And so in that case. I would recommend for folks to, at this point, moving forward, to really start taking ownership of their career, especially in today's climate where, as I'm sure you've seen Tara, it is more volatile than I've ever seen.

There's a lot less loyalty between companies, corporations, and their employees, and so that ownership. Really does fall on us more. [00:09:00] And what I mean by that is just to not leave it up, you know, to the company or your leader to just recognize you're doing well and keep track of all of those things and, and hand deliver those salary increases and promotions and recognition out of the blue that you definitely deserve. So I'll hear folks say, you know, I do good work. I just think they'll recognize and, and reward it. And as much as I wish that were the case, unfortunately. It's not, and I've been caught in that rat trap myself.

Tara: Yep. Same.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): um, you aren't responsible for how a company handles salary compression. That's, that's out of your control.

Right. But what you are responsible for is your own career trajectory. And so starting to. Have those transparent conversations with your leaders. You know, however those conversations might be set up in your company. Maybe you have a cadence one-on-one with a manager, for instance, and tracking things like your wins and [00:10:00] your own accomplishments, bringing them up when you have the conversations with your managers. Um. One of the things that I'll tell my clients, 'cause I'll, I'll hear that a lot with folks that they're like, I don't have, I don't have data to speak to on, you know, what I, what I'm doing well, and I'll just say, you know, create your own awards. And that is like tracking those things that you're doing well.

Even if one of your business partners is like, Carol, oh my gosh, you're my favorite project manager to work with out of the whole company. Because you're so organized, you always deliver earlier on time and you're so communicative. That's data that you can absolutely use in addition to external market research and things like that.

So being able to start those conversations now and using things like market research and your own internal data that's gonna help you build a really strong case.

Tara: Mm-hmm. Yeah. One thing that I got into the regular practice of doing, I called it a yay me folder, [00:11:00] that

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): I love

Tara: anytime I would get positive feedback that HA was very specific, not just like, good job, but. Something specific from a client, from a customer, from a colleague, from my manager. I would store it in my folder and then, you know, we all go through performance review time.

I would use those and attach those to my performance review as evidence to what I was saying to that, and that it made it easier for me. Plus, it was nice when I had like a rough day, I just went to my yay e folder and. Cheered myself up a little bit like you're doing okay. Um, but that did come in h handy when it came time for conversations, for salary increases, or, you know, if my job was switching responsibilities, to be able to pull this and say, okay, well I've been going above and beyond.

Can you, how can we reward this in a, in a way [00:12:00] that. I feel like I'm getting compensated appropriately.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. And your managers are human beings, right? We wanna take the path of least resistant and least resistance, and we want things to be easy. And if you can present something like your Yay Me folder and say, you know, here's what I'm thinking in terms of compensation, here's what I've contributed and my outcomes

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): that. It's a lot easier for them to intake that, that information and have discussions moving forward with you or leadership, whoever might be the decision maker in that than if you say, Hey, I've been doing really well. I wanna talk about making more money and maybe a promotion, and then putting that onus on them.

It is. Going to be much slower, if ever at all. And so I, I love that idea of a yay me folder, especially as a way to hype yourself up when you are down.

Tara: Definitely needed.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): yes, a hundred percent. Um, I really, I really do like that. I think that's an excellent idea.

Tara: Yeah, and to your point too about [00:13:00] tying back to the business objectives and goals, like I found too, it was more helpful to negotiate when I could prove that I was bringing in money or whatever the objectives were for the company. That I'm like, I'm bringing in this amount of money. I'm only asking for this much of an increase.

Like it's not. At the end of the day, too much to ask. I don't think, you know, um, just knowing what's important to them and what you're advocating for

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yes.

Tara: now. Oh

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): for

Tara: yeah, for sure. Especially, I mean, businesses, that's why they exist. They need to make money, so, yeah. Now we, you mentioned earlier that the best time to negotiate is when you're actually in that.

Job seeking phase. And I know that you've shared like you've been low balled and discouraged from advocating for [00:14:00] more during that negotiation process. And I know a lot of us are not comfortable with negotiation. Like for me, I came from higher education. There wasn't really much negotiation in that field.

Uh, you got the salary and. Be happy you have a salary kind of attitude. I've learned that there are still things that you can negotiate for, even if it's not a salary base, but I wanna hear from your perspective, like what is something maybe most job seekers maybe don't realize is happening behind the scenes during that offer negotiation phase that may be helpful for us in the future.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): so the number one thing that I will say is that that first offer is rarely, rarely the best and final companies expect you to negotiate. I think it's like, if you wanna break it into a statistic, when I've researched it, it's, it's like some, over 70% of companies, [00:15:00] employers, a, uh, expect you to negotiate. And like I would be a part of, in, in my world, we called them debrief meetings, which was after we interviewed all of our finalists. And then me and the hiring team would get together to discuss our finalists and then who we wanted to, you know, of course extend a final offer to. And in those conversations, when we would start to talk about, what is the offer package that we wanna put together? We would think about. Their whole experience, their skillset, also their whole interview process. All of these things You are kind of building a case outside of your own salary negotiation. So all of those things really do matter when it comes to that, that kind of final decision. as I said, companies expect you to negotiate because they're. They're not really gonna offer [00:16:00] you that highest number. You know, I, I think I've only ever extended, I've hired well over a thousand employees and I think I've only gone in with the first offer one time that was like, this is the highest that we, that we can go. And it was the very top of the band that I had to work with. And so. Salary negotiation isn't something we're just like born to know how to do. It's a skill. It's a muscle. We have to exercise. It's uncomfortable no matter how many times you do it. Just know that that is true and it's kind of expected and it's okay. It is. It's not a disrespectful thing to do. And of the fears that I will hear from folks when they, when we're talking about, okay, it's time to negotiate, let's talk about that. Is I'll hear them say, well, I don't wanna appear greedy. I don't wanna appear ungrateful, and I don't [00:17:00] want to upset anybody. And so they rescind, they, they take back my offer. so behind the scenes. Those are never, those have never been things that have come up in my salary negotiations when I'm advocating on behalf of, of my, uh, of my new hire.

When they, you know, come to me and they're like, Hey, Tessa, thank you so much for this offer. Here's how I'd like to counter this is what I'm thinking. You know, what can you do with that? And I can't really think of any time where I've gone back to a hiring manager or to a, a leader, another decision maker, and said, okay. Here's what they said. They wanna negotiate, it's expected. So they're, they're kind of expecting it and they're like, okay, well let's see what we can do. I, I can't think of a single time where somebody was like, I can't believe that they wanna negotiate. So it's, it's more of these fears that we have, which are valid.

It, you absolutely, you know, have, have ability to, to do that. Um, one of the [00:18:00] second things I would say is that those offers are. Rarely about, they're not always about what you are worth or what is fair.

Tara: Hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): said before in my last, in my last answer, that we, we might expect a company to do the right thing and pay us what we're worth, but that ownership a lot of the times falls on us.

They're probably not gonna do that, and that's a large gamble to, to think that they will and. So by asking for, uh, you know, by presenting yourself in your interview, um, and throughout your communication, and then going into a salary negotiation very clearly and being prepared and professionally then, um. are much more likely to get that salary that you're looking for because they're gonna see that, um, that additional value in that, that you bring to the table. So it's a lot less likely that [00:19:00] they're going to give that to you if you don't ask. And again, it's just not always about what's, what's fair.

They might not even know, you know, they, they might not even have a, um, a finance team who's feeding them this data. And so it's much more likely that you will get the negotiation that you want when you come to the table with that preparation.

Tara: Mm-hmm. I, I am curious too, from your experience, have you seen like a good way to negotiate from a candidate and maybe a not recommended way to negotiate? I.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): That's such a good question. Yes. So one of the things that I have told people since, since day one when I was a recruiter and now that I work as a career coach, Never say these things in a salary negotiation. And those are, oh, I never really thought what I, what I wanted to make, you know, whatever you guys think is fair.

You'd actually, you might be surprised how many times I, I [00:20:00] would hear that. And a

Tara: Wow.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): or during an interview, just, I'm just happy to, you know, I just wanna join the organization, whatever you guys think is fair. Um, and then the second thing that I highly discourage people from doing is giving a. A salary range that they want

Tara: Hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): admitting your, what we used to call a floor. This is, this is what the, the lease that your amount that you want to take or you're willing to take. So I always recommend, you know, say you extended an offer to me, know, Hey Tessa, we're so excited for you to join the company and I'm really excited to present you with this offer. We would love to extend you the salary of $120,000. And I say, great, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Um, I'm so excited about the, this opportunity and you know, the possibility of joining, of joining the company. That being said, here's what I had in [00:21:00] mind, and you, you wanna be very clear about the salary that you want.

So don't give a range and say, you know what, um, you know, based on my experience, whatever that might be. And my expertise and what I'll be bringing to this organization, my target salary is $130,000. does that land with you? You wanna be succinct, you wanna be clear and you don't wanna ramble. Those salary negotiations are much more likely, and you wanna ask for the number that you really want you don't wanna have a whole lot of back and forth.

If she comes back and she says, Hey, we can't do one 30, but we can do 1 25. I don't wanna say, okay, well I actually really want 1 35, or, you know, we, we wanna really ask for that and eliminate the back and forth again, you wanna create that ease for the other person, present them with that information clearly and succinctly so that they can go back and make a decision, and then you can make a decision.

Tara: That's really helpful. I also like the, the question at the [00:22:00] end, like, how does that land? 'cause that starts to give you an idea on what they were really thinking or what they can work with too.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yes, ending with something like that, it can feel uncomfortable. Usually when we as humans are uncomfortable, we want to. Justify. We wanna ramble and we wanna say a lot of things. And so it's, it's hard to just kind of like bite down all of those words. So I always recommend Andy ending on a question like that because it it, it puts that ball back in their court and you've said what you need to say.

You don't wanna over, you don't wanna overshare or over justify. It's just a conversation. You know, they've already made you an offer. It's okay for you to ask for what you want. And ending with a question just puts a fine point on you are done speaking. You know what's, what's next for them? And one other thing, Tara, I'll say too, I actually just went through this with another client of mine when we were doing his offer negotiation. [00:23:00] I always recommend, especially given the volatility of today's job market, things are just different. Like I said, you know, the loyalty isn't necessarily there. Folks will get laid off without severance packages and things like that.

Tara: Yeah.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): I highly recommend. Negotiating liquid money first. So that would be the hourly rate or the salary rate, whatever. Um, however, your, your role may be categorized and then your, kinda, your plan B is, maybe it's a PTO package. Can we expand on that? Maybe it's a sign on bonus or maybe it's quarterly bonuses. Can we talk about an increase in that, or it's more stock options or more RSUs? And then we go to that more. I always like to call it monopoly money because it's

Tara: Yeah.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): we are necessarily receiving right away, and it's not as guaranteed. But I recommend the salary negotiation for negotiation for the liquid money first, and then Monopoly money as your plan BI.

Tara: Mm-hmm. Yeah, [00:24:00] that's good. I have so many questions, but I also want to get to, for folks that are not in that seeking process but are in their current role, and they've realized. I need a raise, or I want a raise, or I deserve a raise, whatever that looks like. Now, you've talked about actually a female leader once discouraged you from asking for a raise, and that really hit me because that has also happened to me as well.

Um, just kind of talked me out of it. In various different forms, and I know what went through my mind in that setting. But I'm curious from your perspective, like what goes through your mind in a moment like that? What do you wish more women understood about advocating for themselves? Like you said, like we've gotta look out for ourselves.

We are in control of us at this point. We can't rely on other people, especially when that pushback is coming from other women that we probably look up to in [00:25:00] some sense.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yeah.

it stung.

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): felt like being slapped to be honest. I remember, I remember the conversation. I was sitting in a conference room and she was virtual. She was on the screen, and I remember just like internally recoiling at her response. She'd been a mentor of mine, someone who had encouraged not only me, but our team who were primarily women to self aate and ask for more. But damn it, Tara, if no one can tear you down or harm you more than a woman you thought was in your corner,

Tara: Yeah.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): it just really sucked. And

Tara: Hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): you know, unfortunately. Some women do still subscribe to that mentality that what's good for me is not good for thee,

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): I want you [00:26:00] to do well, but not exceed me, or in a way that is threatening to me because there's only so much room for women at the top.

You know, it's a, it's an older mentality and in a way I have a certain level of compassion for women who feel that way because there's, there's a reason for it, which of course is a another conversation. And what I would say to women who gone through an experience like that because it, it hurts more when it's another woman.

Tara: Yeah.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): And I encourage someone who has gone through that to sit with that feeling, that discomfort and just really. Process what was said, how you feel about it, because that's going to help deliver what your next step is. And I remember. I don't know if you ever [00:27:00] watched this talk, but I, I was, I was a track runner.

I'm a runner and Allison Felix is one of my queens, and she's a big advocate. And I, I remember listening to one of her interviews where she's talking about negotiations with Nike. I, I highly recommend listening to it,

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): she use your voice even if it shakes. So even if it's scary, it's always gonna kind of be scary and uncomfortable, especially when someone kind of. you for it, you know? what I would tell women is like, is that's okay. The discomfort is okay. It's going to feel uncomfortable. Just because someone pushed you down for it doesn't mean you're incorrect or that you should feel ashamed for that conversation. You are going to ruffle feathers. It's going to make some folks uncomfortable.

You know, women, especially when we step into our power and we use our voice. not gonna sit well with everybody. [00:28:00] People might question you and your motives if you're worthy, deserving, or they might even just try to shove you back down to the status quo. And that's a lot of the times in my experience that that's what happened.

And those are not your people. it's important to have those experiences because we learn how to bounce back from them. We, we learn how to be better leaders ourselves. It's a growth experience.

Tara: Right.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): And nothing more. It's not a reflection on your worth. And so I would encourage you, take that experience, use it for what it is, which is for learning. Don't internalize that shame and find your people, the people who empower you, not just, you know, yes people, but people who are going to be really in your corner and to play devil's advocate and who are gonna advocate for you because that's, that's really, really important. Um, know, being aware. like that is one thing.

And experiencing them, I said, standing in your power [00:29:00] is another. Um. When I was thinking about this question, I'm an analogy and like a metaphor,

Tara: Yeah, me too.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): this is how I process the world

Tara: Love it.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): just hear me out. Just go with me. It reminded me a little bit of like the, like just say no to drugs campaigns in high school where they're playing these videos for you and they're like, here are these cut and dry, black and white situations and here's how you respond.

And it's very easy and you're gonna recognize when these things are are coming, are coming at you. And then. In real life, you know, if you are, at least if you were in rural America where I grew up, um, it wasn't black and white like that. You know, you might be in a space that you don't recognize is unsafe for you, or you might be, you know, in an say, just, you know, in a party for, for argument's sake, and. It's your friends. These are people who you love and you, you trust and all of a sudden there's this social pressure and it's uncomfortable. It's different [00:30:00] than seeing it and feeling like it was gonna be easy in black and white and actually experiencing it. It's, you know, it's hard that's exactly why we do it.

Tara: Yeah, I, I feel that I, I, I definitely, you know, a, a lot of times people say, stand up for yourself. I, I mean, I talk about it all the time, like I talk about agency and where do you have agency and what can, where levers can you pull that. At least with the burnout setting, like that gives you some control back and in those kind of situations.

But yeah, it's one thing to talk about it. It's another thing to live it and do it and experience it, but to your point earlier, like it is a skill. All of this is, you know, this negotiation, this voicing and self-advocacy, that's, that's all a skill that we can build and grow. And the more you do it, the more comfortable.

You [00:31:00] become. Uh, and I think it's about finding the right people, like you said, finding the right support system too. And these moments where you have someone that slaps you in the face essentially and surprises you. It sucks in the moment, but it is good for learning moving forward.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yeah, absolutely it. Those conversations are. Always gonna be tough. Like I said, it's like when you, when you start working out, for instance, like doing new exercise, lifting weights, it's, it's like the exercises don't get easier. You just get stronger. You become more resilient. You develop that, that thicker skin and that endurance that is necessary and. You know, by the way, I, I kept pushing for a promotion and a raise. Those

Tara: Hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): didn't stop. It was harder because I was, I, like I said, I recoiled a little bit. Um, the company did not close my compression gap, but through self advocating consistent conversations with my leaders and hr. I was able to increase my [00:32:00] salary.

I did the math on it by nearly 45% over

Tara: Hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): years. And then later that year, I took another position and I increased my salary by another 72%.

Tara: Wow.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): so those tough conversations, feeling that discomfort is important because those conversations are always gonna be uncomfortable and it's just exercising that muscle.

It, it will. to fruition. Um, you know, as you continue to exercise it.

Tara: Yeah, I see your point too about like the repetition and it, I think many of us could probably take that one. One time that we like put ourselves on the line and we ask for that raise and we get smacked down, we get ignored, maybe gaslit, whatever that looks like. and then we end up like just giving up [00:33:00] on it because it's.

Much easier to retreat than it is to keep going forward.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yeah.

Tara: to your point, you only got to that point because you kept asking, because you kept advocating for yourself. And I think that's the hard part to, at least for me, when I see colleagues, usually men, not to drown out the men and put, you know, bash men or anything like that.

But when I see colleagues that it, it comes easy to them, like they. Ask one time and they get it, and here I am having to ask 15 times and what I'm asking for is probably not even to the level of what they were asking for. It's hard and it's frustrating and it can definitely be def deflating, I think is a good word for that.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Absolutely. I think too, to your point, an unintended. Positive that comes [00:34:00] from the repetition of conversations like this is as we, particularly as we as women grow into those leadership roles and even, you know, leadership doesn't have to be a C-suite executive. We can be leaders in, in any area, having that experience and that hardship and even the gaslighting or you know, God forbid retaliation makes us better leaders in advocating for one another as

Tara: Yeah.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): I think. There's always a choice in that. As I mentioned, you know, there is still an existence of there's only room for so many women at the top. That is something I have experienced as well, and it really sucks. And so making the choice to, you know, go left when you easily could have gone right, is a much more productive way to use that experience.

It's like, I knew what, what this was like, and it sucked. You better believe. it, when it came [00:35:00] time for me to advocate for my candidates and other women on my team, that I went to the mat for them

Tara: I.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): understood what that meant, that bravery and what that felt like and, and the, um, the negative repercussions of salary compression because it's, it is personal.

These are our livelihoods. This is the labor that we're contributing to a company that's making money. You know, make no mistake as much as these, you know, companies, corporations want us to buy into. mission, the innovation, the culture, all of these things. They are not in business for completely altruistic reasons and neither should you be. So we contribute labor and that labor deserves to be compensated. And so I think thinking of it like that makes it a little softens the blow of that self-advocacy when it starts to feel a little bit harder.

Tara: Yeah, I think it just makes it a little bit more transactional in a way that you can kind of see it. I, you're paying for, they're paying for a service, they're paying for your services, [00:36:00] and if you were out on your own. You'd be getting paid for your services.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yeah.

Tara: It's only fair that you get the same where you are.

I like that. Now, I wanna move on to, because I've been having a lot of conversations with folks who are in pretty toxic situations or just they have. Realize that this is not the right place for them and they want to leave. They're trying to figure it out and I'm, you know, we're helping them through that.

And I know that you've helped a lot of women exit toxic jobs, find their fit and land in the right place afterwards. And I am seeing a lot of mindset challenges now. Before they leave that I think are, [00:37:00] are contributing to some of that. But I'm curious how, what have you seen or what have you noticed that women start to believe about themselves after they leave?

That they just couldn't see the blinders were on while they were still in the mess. Because I think that this can give some people hope for what the future can hold for them.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): That it's not as scary as it was

Tara: Hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): I know we know this. You know, I'm gonna say this, and this is going to ring true for a lot of people. The devil we know is better than the devil. We don't, it's

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): be in this toxic situation, whether it's an employer, a relationship, what have you, and we know that. But going outside of that is like, oh my God, what's gonna happen to me?

What's gonna hap like it? I think there's an underlying fear that what if it really, what if it's me? What if I'm the problem? And if I go outside of this, I'm gonna prove that right? And I don't wanna be the problem. So I would, I would rather be here. And I think that's a really [00:38:00] normal and common

Tara: Oh yeah.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): We are hardwired to reject anything that scares us or that is harmful. So that is legit. And. You know, our brains aren't recognizing like, Hey, this is an employer. There are other employers. We're just like, no, I wanna stay safe. Even if the toxicity sucks, it's, it feels safer sometimes than going outside of that. So what I will notice that just like most other things in our life, can think about a time where something felt really scary. Maybe it was like running a marathon or a 5K, or, you know. Earning a certification, anything like that, trying to bake something you've never made before, and then you do it and you're like, oh my God, it wasn't that bad.

Even if you screwed up a little bit. Like, it's not catastrophic. It's okay. It's okay. We're gonna, we're going to be okay. We're gonna get through it. And we, the second thing that I'll say is that the worst case scenario they wrote in their mind, [00:39:00] which your girl does this too,

Tara: Preach.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): never the actual outcome.

Like it. just, it never actually happens. Um, and of course, you know, that better does exist

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): of this situation there are things, gonna get into a new job, a new company and be like, I didn't know it could be like this.

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): That does exist. It, it might feel like it doesn't from your current lens, but I assure you it does. And like I had a client. Recently, she's still in her job, but as she is, you know, going for her master's degree, we've talked about what she's gonna do, you know, after her current, her current situation. She called me, I think it was last week, to say that her direct supervisor refused to entertain flexibility around her PTO and their PTO policy, she could just wait for it.

Brace for impact, attend her own wedding and [00:40:00] honeymoon

Tara: Stop it.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): She said, well, I guess you won't be attending your own wedding. So we let that sink in. We got over the absurdity of that and we strategized of what to do next, which was her, of course, to swiftly and professionally escalate to her director, which is what she did.

So we

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): different scenarios and she's like, gosh, you know, Tesla, I'm so nervous. What if this happens? What if this happens? And and I said, okay, let's just, let's go down that rabbit hole.

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): is the suckiest thing? is in your mind, that could occur. And we talked about it. What if, what if they just say no?

What if I get yelled at? God forbid, what if I get fired? And I said, okay, then what? What would you do if that happened? And she's like, well, I'd quit because I deserve better. And I said, exactly, exactly. Either way, you win. You either see the type of company that this is and the industry she's in. She, she'd be able to get a job quite easy.

I recognize that not everyone is in that position [00:41:00] but my my point is there that. When you start to think about these things way, this way of really thinking, um, and doing some mindset work around, this is what I deserve and this is how I would react if, if the worst, if the worst happened, it's not quite as scary as you think it is.

And the worst case scenario is like really rarely going to happen. Which by the way, when she talked to her director, called me after and she was like. Oh my God. She was so understanding. She was like, no, absolutely. I'll speak to your supervisor. She shouldn't have handled it this way. We, of course, want you to be able to attend your wedding at such a special time. It was so much better than the worst case scenario, and it was just an interesting anecdote. But I recognize, again, you know, that not everyone is in the position to be able to leave. But what I will say of those situations is it's telling you something. Really listen to that and you know, really listen to. What, what is that feeling that you're having that pit in your stomach? Because it's, it's gonna [00:42:00] really tell you something that better does exist.

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I always do something very similar when I'm talking with folks of dissect that, and you obviously that's causing friction for a reason. And you know in your heart of hearts that something better is out there because otherwise this wouldn't cause friction. You would just accept it. And some people unfortunately, do accept things for what they are, and that's a whole nother conversation that we could have.

But I love that point. I can't believe that somebody would even. Say like, you can't attend your wedding. If my boss, first off, I had an amazing boss when I got married and she was like, please do not, don't you dare even check your email, take it off your phone. Like she, I had to prove to her that I took things off my phone and [00:43:00] um, it was actually really fun.

Well, not funny, but. While I was on leave, like the first day I was on leave. 'cause she had made such a big deal about Tara's gonna be offline. Do not bother her. She's getting married. No touchy. And the first day I took off, like the whole week leading up to our wedding. The first day she calls and she's like.

I am so, so sorry that I have to call you right now, but this is a big deal 'cause our director had, our VP ended up, um, leaving and he had announced it that day and like he was leaving like immediately and she was like, you need to know 'cause I didn't want you to find out another way. But it was just so funny how she was like the whole week leading up to, she's like, don't touch her, leave her alone, yada, yada.

And then first day she's calling. But it was for good reason. Um. Yeah. But yeah, I can't, that's just, that's just wild. But it does all of these things, all of these experiences that [00:44:00] you question are teaching you something and also telling you about what you want in the future and what to look for.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yeah.

Tara: Yeah.

Well, um, I'm looking at the time. I hate it. I, we've already come to. Our end, which is wild to me 'cause this was such a great conversation. Um, but before we really wrap it up, I, I wanna ask you, so as you know, this podcast is called The Balanced Badass Podcast. And I just wanna know, how do you define being a balanced badass in your own life?

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Doing the things that I want in the way that that serve me

Tara: Hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): being exactly who I am. I. Sounds like a no-brainer. It was a lot harder in my twenties than in my thirties. In my thirties, I feel a lot more rooted and grounded. I've done a lot of mindset work and with that, one of the things that's definitely how [00:45:00] I would define it is being exactly who I am.

It's a, it's a really beautiful comfort. It's a

Tara: Hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): to be able to. Understand and to be able to spend time with who you really are. It's, um, really wonderful. One of the things that has helped me and has really served me in the past couple of years, and I still do it, is I record voice notes to myself

Tara: I love it.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): this is, I'm 35, so I

Tara: Yep. I was gonna say the millennial.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): You, yeah. You're gonna know my age when I tell you how I use a phone. But I use my Voice Note app to record voice notes to myself with different affirmations, manifestations, and, and things that are rewiring my brain because we all have some unlearning, right? And I listen to it on my morning walks.

I'll listen to it at night. I have a couple of different ones that I will do, and there's, I will tell my business coach that nobody pumps me up like me. And so when I [00:46:00] listen to myself, it's almost like I'm listening to my future self tell me I'm a badass. Like

Tara: Straight.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): it's, I'm great um, I'm gonna be okay.

It's something comforted. It's almost like having a big sister

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): That is something that has really served me in not only my professional life, but certainly being an entrepreneur and being a professional woman.

Tara: Mm. I love that. And yes, you are a badass. So

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): you.

Tara: I'm glad that you are telling yourself that. Um, as much as we need to advocate for ourselves, we also need to advocate to ourselves and. Remember that we need to hear our own voice in a positive light. I think a lot of us hear our own voice in more of a negative light, but spending and flexing that muscle to really bring that voice to the forefront is so important.

So thank you for sharing that. That's amazing.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yeah.[00:47:00] 

Tara: You have taught us a lot today. You've taught us a little bit about self-advocacy and. You know how the whole process works with hiring and what to consider and that we don't need to wait for someone to give us permission, but sometimes we are gonna have to be persistent in asking for what we know we want and what we deserve.

And I appreciate you sharing your story, sharing your knowledge, and. I'm sure folks are gonna wanna stay in touch with you beyond just this episode. So, Tessa, how can folks stay connected with you after listening to the episode? Where can they find you?

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Yes. So I am on LinkedIn for

Tara: Mm-hmm.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): connect and follow me on LinkedIn. I'm always posting tons of tips and strategies, especially around salary and advocating. 'cause it's just, I. It's just my passion and I am also, your girl is creating a business TikTok. So

Tara: girl.[00:48:00] 

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): I will be, on the TikTok, um, probably in the next week or so.

So you'll start to see some stuff from me there again, just look for Tessa Gritz. not a very common name, so you should be able to find me. But feel free to shoot me a dm, connect with me on LinkedIn. I would just love to hear from you.

Tara: Awesome. Thank you so much Tessa. Folks listening. I will have all the links to. All the things in the show notes so that way you can easily access it. Um, I really do appreciate you being here and for doing the work that you do and for reminding us that we don't need to shrink to be successful and to be who we are and to be our fullest, authentic self.

So I really do appreciate your time with us.

Tessa Grashuis (she/her): Absolutely. This was wonderful, Tara. Thank you.

Tara: Awesome. Well, listeners, we are gonna wrap things up and once again, thank you for being here. Thank you for doing the work and for listening and, um, just remember [00:49:00] to stay balanced, stay badass, and always make good choices. I'll catch you next time.