Why Vacations and Self-Care Won't Cure Burnout (And What Will) with Kelsea Warren

In this episode, Tara welcomes Kelsea, The Seamless Coach, who specializes in burnout prevention. They discuss Kelsea's personal experiences with burnout and how they inform her current work. 

The conversation highlights the inadequacy of self-care and vacations as solutions for burnout, emphasizing the importance of addressing root causes. Additionally, Kelsea introduces the concept of job crafting and workplace value alignment, offering actionable tips for making your job work for you. 

They also explore how organizations can better support their employees by addressing systemic issues rather than placing the burden of burnout on individuals.

To connect with Kelsea:

• Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/theseamlesscoach/)
• Threads (https://www.threads.net/@theseamlesscoach)
• LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelseal-warren/)
• TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@theseamlesscoach)
• Website (https://theseamlesscoach.com/)

00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:58 Meet Kelsea: The Seamless Coach
01:31 The Importance of Community
04:02 Understanding Burnout: Personal Experiences
13:11 Viral Insights on Burnout
22:36 Aligning Workplace Values with Career Goals
23:49 Personal Experiences with Workplace Misalignment
27:56 Understanding and Implementing Job Crafting
36:57 Systemic Solutions to Combat Burnout
42:12 Defining a Balanced Badass Life

Need a little more balance and a lot more badass in your life? Check out my 1:1 coaching sessions designed to help you tackle your biggest challenges, manage stress, and create a personalized plan for success. Your first 30-minute session is free! Visit tarakermiet.com to get started. 

Want to turn your dreams into reality? Check out my 7 Days to Crushing Your Goals mini-course! This course is packed with practical lessons and hands-on activities designed to help you define your “why,” leverage your strengths, and take decisive action. By the end, you'll have a clear plan and the tools you need to crush your goals. Visit tarakermiet.com/crushyourgoals to join the course and start making things happen! 

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome and Introduction
• 1:44 Meet Kelsea: The Seamless Coach
• 2:17 The Importance of Community
• 4:48 Understanding Burnout: Personal Experiences
• 14:41 Viral Insights on Burnout
• 24:06 Aligning Workplace Values with Career Goals
• 25:19 Personal Experiences with Workplace Misalignment
• 29:26 Understanding and Implementing Job Crafting
• 38:27 Systemic Solutions to Combat Burnout
• 45:05 Defining a Balanced Badass Life

Transcript

Tara: [00:00:00] Hey, y'all welcome back. I am pretty pumped for today's episode because we have another amazing guest joining us. who is also known as the seamless coach pretty much everywhere on the interwebs is a coach, consultant and speaker specializing in burnout prevention and her viral statement of vacations and self care don't cure burnout has made waves for a reason.

Thanks So with a master's degree in social work and a PhD in industrial and organizational psychology on the horizon, she brings a powerhouse combination of expertise, empathy, and practical solutions to the table. we're going to unpack what really drives burnout, the role that workplace value alignment plays in both causing and preventing it, and how you can start crafting your job to work for you instead of against you. So without further ado, I want to jump right into it. Kelsea, welcome to the balanced badass [00:01:00] podcast.

Kelsea: Thanks so much. That was such a nice intro. I'm so happy to be here.

Tara: Well, I'm glad you enjoyed the intro. Um, just for our guests. Um, so, you know, I found Kelsea on the internet. I found her on, I think, Instagram originally, um, started following her and been admiring her work. And Kelsea has been amazing to Lend me some of her time and expertise. So I was very excited when she agreed to be on the podcast. um, I start this out with every guest that we have, because just want to know, you know, what's something that you are loving in your life right now, Kelsea.

Kelsea: Such a good question. Many things. I think right now is the time we're recording. It's Christmas season. So of course, like all of the Christmas things, you know, the cookies, the baking, that fun stuff. But I think generally this whole year, I've really been leaning into community. And [00:02:00] so we recently moved, well, I guess not so recently now in March of this year to Cheyenne, Wyoming.

And it's such a small. Town here, but it's also a little big town. So there is a lot to do. There's a lot of events and connections to be made. So I've just really been loving putting myself out there in different capacities, you know, getting in with the chamber, doing stuff with church, going to things with our neighbors, which we have never done before.

We've never had neighbors that we just could like connect with. So definitely just leaning into community is something that is filling the cup right now.

Tara: I love that. I love. hearing that too, because I think that shows the importance of having kind of that support network, but also, you know, what we're talking about with burnout, but having something outside of work to

Kelsea: Yes.

Tara: And that's, that's something I've been working on, too. We're, I still say that we're new to our area, but we've lived here since 2021.

So I guess I can't say that, but

Kelsea: new, [00:03:00] feels new.

Tara: yeah, it does feel new because I, I mean, I worked from home, I don't have meetings and all that kind of stuff. So like you, like I've joined the chamber, I've been doing a lot more, um, different like networking events and that kind of stuff just to some new folks and have some connections.

Like I always say, I just miss having like, Happy hour with somebody like having somebody that I can call or be like, do you want to go get appetizer somewhere? You know?

Kelsea: Yeah, especially in the work we do. It's like you're talking to people all day, but it's not necessarily that mutual kind of interaction all the time. My clients, I feel like sometimes it is, but it's you're still there for them. So,

Tara: Right. Right. It's a, it's a different relationship than just a friendly relationship. So

Kelsea: yeah, for sure.

Tara: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. Um, I like to start with that question cause I think it gets to of where you are right now and helps to give us perspective maybe of where your responses to some of these questions might be coming

Kelsea: Yeah, yeah, it definitely ties in.

Tara: [00:04:00] Yeah, for sure. So let's start. So I want to talk about, know, you've helped hundreds of people navigate burnout. so I'm curious, how was your burnout? Like how has burnout shown up in your life? Maybe what lessons did you take from those experiences that you're now applying in the work that you do today?

Kelsea: I have experienced several different burnout cycles, I would say, and it probably, you know, honestly started back in high school for me just always being very much a high achiever. I was valedictorian. I would take CNA class when I was in high school and like was working and doing a lot of things. I was in seven clubs in high school.

So, Constantly, you know, doing the high achieving stuff, but it wasn't until after college when I actually got into my first professional role that I experienced like full on burnout. I worked at a psychiatric residential treatment facility, which was very intense. [00:05:00] And over, you know, about a year, not only like safety was a concern, but just feeling like I couldn't make the impact that I wanted in the role that I was in.

I was still working on my bachelor's degree with seeing all the administration and the therapists and the supervisors, like making all these recommendations. They're like, you're not in the cottage with us day to day. Like requesting that someone has like one on one support when we only have three staff on and 12 kids in here is like really unrealistic.

So just certain things, misalignments there were frustrating to me, but I didn't know it was burnout at that time. I just thought that I was tired or, you know, because we had moved, we lived in North Dakota at the time, like maybe it was the weather and just different things throughout. So I did a few things then to Try and fix the situation.

I asked to go down to part time, but then again, I just was always getting roped back into like, oh, picking up extra shifts or whatever. So [00:06:00] that didn't really help. Eventually, I just had to leave. Um, and when I did that, I got my first, I would say, like, office professional job. I worked as a program manager, a program assistant for Family Advocacy, which is the Air Force Domestic Violence and Child Maltreatment Center, essentially.

It was a great job. Loved the co workers. Started doing my master's in social work at that time. Was taking on quite a bit. And then there, there were some other misalignments happening just obviously the nature of the work, you know, domestic violence, child maltreatment, like hearing stuff like that all day is pretty intense.

When I got into my internship. I actually switched roles as a domestic violence victim advocate, the only one that the base had at the time. So I was on call 24 7, working full time, doing 20 hours a week of internship work. So that was a lot. My husband was deployed in the winter there, and then I also had a side woodworking business at the same time.

So [00:07:00] the workload in general was wild. Um, this is probably one of the more significant times of burnout though that I've been experiencing because not only was it You know, absenteeism, presenteeism on both sides. Um, so I was calling in sick a lot. I was a contract employee, so I didn't actually have sick time, so it didn't really matter if I was or wasn't there.

It was kind of feast or famine there, so I either had like one client a month or I was, you know, at the ER for 10 hours a day with like sexual assault victims and things, so it was just very up and down. Uh, the leadership there was under investigation for some things, which also didn't make it very, you know, Conducive for a good work environment.

Just a lot of stuff happening. I actually started experiencing physical symptoms in addition to just like, tiredness, you know, feeling dread, going to work, that kind of thing. I had a migraine that lasted over six [00:08:00] months. Um, and then I also sought out therapy for what I thought was depression, because I was just feeling terrible.

At one point, I got on medication. For depression and experienced actually serotonin syndrome because I wasn't depressed. I was stressed. So that's the whole story, but with that, you know, stop that medication pretty quickly because it made things drastically work for me and then got a new manager things turned around actually pretty well and we ended up moving because of the Air Force.

So it wasn't that I quit that job necessarily. And I probably would have stayed. And continued working as a therapist in a different role there, but there were a lot of things that I was just like, this is not me. I'm not someone that calls in sick like more often than not, you know, I feel like even sending an email like that was the only thing I had to do today felt like such a slog.

And at that time, I was working in a mental health clinic, you know, PhD psychologists, seasoned social workers, [00:09:00] no one. was talking about burnout. No one knew that it was burnout. Everyone was just like, how can we help you? Stress and stress at work wasn't even mentioned really. And I felt a little disillusioned by that.

Maybe a little let down, I would say, especially coming out of a master's degree in social work and then going into the field myself. It was, a little disheartening to know, now looking back even, that no one characterized that as burnout, not my therapist that I went to, not the people around me. So that was something that I'm still kind of like passionate about, is making sure that people understand actually what it is, and that therapy sometimes is not necessarily the cure, or even like Does a therapist know how to help someone through burnout properly coming from a former therapist?

Don't get mad at me. Um, we're just not taught that, right? You're taught to do self care and that's where that comes from. I'm sure we'll touch on that a little bit, but the tools at work or recognizing work stressors wasn't really [00:10:00] something that we talked about. So fast forward, I worked at intensive in home, brought its own round of stressors.

I was a clinical supervisor. There, I didn't really experience burnout in that role. I actually really enjoyed it. I felt a little more fulfilled, but there were some definite misalignments and disconnects between, you know, I, as a clinical supervisor, I could see the need like filling census and getting people cases and meeting these numbers, but then also like the safety side and like these, you know, therapists that were also burning out.

So there was kind of a disconnect there. They're really interested in me and the organizational psychology part of things. I also was pregnant at that time. So took a maternity leave and actually didn't return and realized like I actually like this organizational psychology stuff a lot better than the clinical work.

So I was like the first step in getting out of it. And I think that I experienced like another lighter burnout cycle. In the other two roles that I had, but it was more so like value misalignment stuff, um, [00:11:00] contributing versus just like work stressors and like the context of work itself before I started my business.

That was a long winded answer, but

Tara: I

Kelsea: several times.

Tara: no, I think it's great because one, it shows that burnout kind of comes in waves and it happens. There's common threads that I can see, but also some differences that happened and a lot of self awareness. Thanks. Throughout the process as well. What really hit me was you talking about just feeling disheartened from your own field from a caring field.

That is, any field in industry should be able to recognize burnout, you would think that that would be the field. I, you know, I wonder if there's a lot of just because everyone. almost in that feeling as well that you're so close to it. It's like, if you know, you can't read a book that's like sitting on your face, has something to do [00:12:00] with it, you know, because you're in it bit more, but I can feel that, you know, I came, I relate so much to of what you say.

I feel like you and I have a lot of things in common cause I too was an overachiever in high school. I go to therapy and realized when. My like, I've been diagnosed with depression and anxiety, and I think some of that might have been a little misdiagnosed as well. I do think I have still have like, I definitely have anxiety.

Like, that's not related to my burnout, but I said. You know, my most recent, more severe experience with burnout, therapy was not helping in any way, shape or form. And I knew that therapy could help with other things, like, because I've seen it work in my life. So was a sure sign to me that this is something that not used to talking about in my life because it's not working.

Kelsea: [00:13:00] It's hard to, you know, you can, you can do as much as you can on the personal resilience side, but if you're still showing up for the same work stressors every day, it's not going to make anything better.

Tara: Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great segue actually to viral statement. So I loved when you told, told me in the story about how you just posted this video on Tik TOK thinking, I'm just posting this video saying vacations and self care don't cure burnout, which, you know, when you take that. dissected apart, pretty, to me, common knowledge, right?

Pretty basic statement, but it went viral for a reason, obviously. So I kind of want you to, for us, for those of us listening, like, can you break down why you think this statement resonated so deeply? And then what we should focus on instead, to help us to recover from burnout.

Kelsea: Yeah, a little context of the video itself too. And there are a lot of factors why probably it went [00:14:00] burnout. I think there at the time the song that I put with it was trending. I was doing my makeup in the video. So like there was distractors. Uh, there were a lot of. People stitching it like literally on the beach and being like, says who, um, knowing that, you know, they're going to go back and then be just as stressed.

So that's kind of, that was, it added to like the fun of it, I think. But in the second part of the video, I kind of explained and introduced the concept of value alignment and I used autonomy as the example. And I said that, If you really value something like autonomy, but you have a micromanaging boss, no amount of self care is going to fix that for you.

And it's something that's hard to change too. And so when you're not addressing stress, work stress specifically at the root cause, and sometimes it's in your control and sometimes it isn't, and that's like a deeper conversation of. Am I doing all I can versus do [00:15:00] I just need to leave? Or is this just not a good fit for me?

Or what other resources, you know, do I have to combat some of these demands, especially at work? But I think it resonated with a lot of people realizing, oh, I've been doing these things. I have been trying to bubble bath my way out of these feelings. Or, you know, hoping that a longer or extended, you know, vacation or taking a four day weekend or something would help.

But in reality, it's just like this feeling of dread and anxiety returns. The second that I step back into work. So I think a lot of people just resonated with that thought or that sentiment and part of my, you know, talks when I go and do speaking events, part of the first process is to have people stand up and then stay standing if they've tried different things to cure burnout.

And by the end, everyone is always standing and some people come up to me like, aren't you worried that yeah, People won't stand up or, you know, but I'm like, no, because I know [00:16:00] these are the things like they think that more money will fix it. They think that

Tara: Okay.

Kelsea: taking a vacation or caring less will fix their problem.

Like, these are things that I just know after working with so many people. And then at the end, I asked them all to sit down. If by the next Monday, they're still feeling burnt out and they all sit down. So it's kind of like a very powerful visual. So it was just an interesting, the placement, obviously the timing, no one was there really, it was in 2022.

So no one was really talking about burnout in the way that we are now. I think, especially in real format, like talking to the camera with your face, that was pretty new back then. So a lot of factors, I wouldn't say it was just the content, but it definitely helped.

Tara: Yeah, I mean, I think, sure, you have like the, you know, real success kind of actors that go into play, but at the end of the day, the messaging. I think it's a, it's a, in a good way, like [00:17:00] a smack in the face, like the realities of what people needed to hear that you can take all the vacations in the world and work still going to be there and your bad boss or the colleague that you struggle with or the workload that you're Buried under is only going to be worse.

I think that's why, like, for me, like I talk about Sunday scary is a lot because like, it's a common experience. And I think that that speaks to why it went viral too. It's a common experience that many people can relate to, but it's still the reality of the issue that not getting to the root cause of what's causing your burnout, which, you know, you and I talk a lot about on our. Different platforms and I think, you know, yes, you can, you can still recommend the vacations. You still need the self care, the way I describe it is like, that's like your baseline line of defense, but [00:18:00] you can't build a house on just that. Like, you still need the other pieces and the other factors that go into play. And you also can't address those foundational issue or those root cause issues without addressing the foundation as well.

Kelsea: Yeah, you have to have the capacity and the space to even consider what you're going to be working on or like be in a good mindset to do those things. So yes, I'm still like, and I have to battle in the comments, you know, I love vacations. Don't get me wrong. I go on at least one or two cruises every year, making sure we do those things.

And self care is important, but I think a lot of times too, self care is kind of expensive. Depending on what it is that you do to take care of yourself. And so when you're already feeling like depleted and like you're not getting paid enough or you're not valued to recommend that someone must go and do, you know, these things like spending money in different areas, getting your hair done, your nails done, or, you know, buying things.[00:19:00] 

Sometimes it's like, I can't do that either. So it feels a little tricky.

Tara: Yeah, well, and what I've, I've seen to talking to folks is like, you lose a lot of who you are and your identity when you're in the middle of burnout. And so for me, my personal experience was like, self care was overwhelming because I didn't even know what was going to be self care for me. I know what used to work, but those things weren't. working anymore, and I didn't want to try to figure out what kind of treat yourself kind of thing was going to work for me.

Kelsea: Yeah. Yeah. Or just like think of the stigma around self care as well as setting boundaries. I work can be self care. It is self care. You know, there's other things that taking care of yourself and community, you know, getting eight hours of sleep and drinking water. Those are all forms of self care.

Tara: Yeah, it's all about how we're defining things, which I think is going to be a constant battle that As a society and as kind of a [00:20:00] field, we're going to be coming against on for a while. Probably.

Kelsea: Yeah.

Tara: So let's talk about, you know, your background in social work. And now work that you're doing in IO psychology, how and and I know you talk really your focus and you're studying is on workplace value alignment.

So I want. To dig into how you see that impacting burnout and why you think it's so critical for employees and organizations to understand this concept when it comes to burnout.

Kelsea: Yeah. I was actually on a phone call with a business to this morning. I'm doing a workplace values or company values workshop with them next week. So helping them. Build their company values based on the workplace values of their employees. And she asked like, well, what are workplace values? Are they not the same thing?

So I like to start with kind of differentiating that. So you have personal values. Everyone does. Companies have company values. [00:21:00] And then the way that an employee approaches work, what they find meaningful and motivating are their workplace values. So you have these three kind of intersections of values that are separate but informed by each other.

A lot of people don't even realize that that's something on the table to consider when they're looking, you know, either at jobs or companies to work for, or organizations are looking how we can best support our employees. So they kind of intersect and they're definitely distinct features that overlap in those categories.

But what is important is we know Maslach's burnout research and different burnout research that value alignment is a protective factor against burnout. So. When an employee goes to work at a company. Who's values they align with, let's say the company mission is important to them or the way that the company sees people or the way that they value [00:22:00] efficiency, you know, things like that.

But separate from that, the way that the company operates on the internal can either. Align with or conflict with how the person operates in their role. So then you're getting into the person job fit and making sure you have the right person in the right role in the right company. And so all of those things are important for employers to know because it leads to, you know, better retention.

It helps with, you know, burnout prevention and things like that. You're going to have a more productive, happy employee when they feel like it. They can approach their work environment, you know, say they value autonomy, efficiency and structure. Like if they have those categories in their role, they're just going to perform better and they're going to feel better doing it.

And then from an employee standpoint, you can use this as a lens for decision making, especially in your job search, I think is really important or when you're considering promotion or any other [00:23:00] career phase that you're in. Not just considering the company values, but how the role itself would align. You know, if you really value impact, how is this role being by other positions in the organization?

Or, you know, what level of collaboration is there if you really value collaboration? So the company might not have collaboration on their website, but you, if you are a collaborative individual. You might not want to go work in a role that's like an I. C. and you never talk to anyone. So, um, helping people understand what their workplace values are is really important to me.

It's very important in just this whole picture of your career and the satisfaction that it can bring. And I think it can be the first line of defense when you are searching out what the next best fit is.

Tara: Yeah, I think it's a great tool to rely on, like you said, for the decision making I know for me, that was kind of the kicker in my last job. [00:24:00] I, the way I tell the story is like, I was in a role. And my last company that I was good at, but it wasn't in alignment with like what I, my strengths were, what I knew I could do,

Kelsea: Mm hmm.

Tara: about. And then I, advocated for myself and ended up getting transferred to another department that was like, Perfect alignment. And then I thought I was like rubbing it in to my friends in the other department. Cause I was like, I found my perfect fit. Like I found it here and then things really started to, and I loved that job.

That job, like that position was but the conditions that were surrounding entire company, there were starting to be some like major red flags for values

Kelsea: Yeah.

Tara: or misalignment, like they were, they touted being a people first. and then made decisions that clearly went against that.

Or they talked about how they really valued work, [00:25:00] but then they were creating silos within

Kelsea: Mm hmm.

Tara: and organizations. And then they split up a department that was built on collaboration was doing a really good job. But it, once they, you know, took us apart and like tore us apart, there was like a clear sign that. Whatever they're saying is not whatever they're doing. And I want

Kelsea: know that.

Tara: like, yeah, like we don't miss it. Like we see it, it's pretty clear. Um, and I, I am someone integrity is one of my personal values. It's also one of my workplace values. Like one of my mentors a long time ago said a quote that always stuck with me.

He's like, integrity is not a part time job. Like you can't choose when to. have integrity And when not to, And that was like a clear sign to me that this company did not hold integrity as a value even if, I mean, they never like, obviously like listed it, but [00:26:00] like, if that's something that's important to me, both personally and professionally, then that's going to be a problem.

Kelsea: And in showing up to work every day in something like that, even if you like your job, or I posted a reel about environmental burnout today, you know, kind of exactly what you just said, and it's, I described it like it's almost like friction, like in the back of your brain, like it's always just kind of running back there and maybe it's not something where you go home and you're so and so said this today and it was so frustrating, like you maybe can't actually pinpoint.

What the like stressor is. And so I also love workplace values, not only for like leaders and managers companies, but for employees too, because it helps them give language to what it is that they're experiencing. And that is by far the biggest piece of feedback that I get in coaching or from the values assessment is that.

Now I can say what has been bothering me. I just never knew exactly how to formulate it in two words. Then I can use [00:27:00] that, whether it's you're staying and you're making personal adjustments. You can still show up that way, like you can still go and collaborate with other people in your work environment if you want to.

You can still act in integrity even if you're not leaving your job. Kind of offset that, but if there's a gaping hole in your bucket, it's hard to fill.

Tara: Yeah, I think it comes to the point where you have to kind of really sit down and look, is it. I say, or do I go and which

Kelsea: Yeah.

Tara: going to be the best for me in this moment and in this season, because that also changes depending on your circumstances and kind of what's going on. Like, I thought I was going to stay and I ended up choosing to leave because it just was that much of a gap.

Like you said, it was like, I couldn't jump over the little puddle. Like, it was a, an ocean between. in me,

Kelsea: You, you as one employee can't fix the integrity of the whole, whole thing. So,

Tara: And there are so many things that you can control, which I did want to get into a [00:28:00] little bit too, because I know that you specialize in job crafting as kind of a way to combat burnout. And you alluded to this a little bit when you were answering the last question, but the listeners that might not be familiar with that term, can you explain what it is and maybe how someone can actually start crafting their current role to better align with those values and maybe their strengths as well.

Kelsea: yeah, so I always tell people that regardless of your state of burnout or your circumstance at work, I have not yet met a single person that can't do something, something to adjust their approach. Even if you've tried everything, everything that you think you have, there's always something that you can do.

Again, sometimes. It's just a matter of like, is this worth my time and energy or capacity in this moment? But job crafting is fundamentally an employee taking ownership over things in their role and work environment to [00:29:00] make work work for them. So a good example of this would be In an office, very simple example, but in an office, let's say it's frustrating to you that you have to walk across the building to get a paper off of the printer every single time you print something.

I'm maybe dating myself because like, I don't know how often that

Tara: Well, my

Kelsea: anymore.

Tara: everything, so.

Kelsea: Uh, the job that I experienced the major burnout, we had like a paper shortage for months that they, the government, you know, spending,

Tara: Yeah.

Kelsea: we had paper turds and we were like, What do we do? How do we update these things? We can't even print.

Um, but an example of job crafting would be to then go and advocate to your manager. Can I get a second printer closer to my office? Or can I move, if that's not feasible, how can I consolidate where I'm printing everything at one time to meet deadlines? And I'm only walking there once. So coming up with creative solutions to [00:30:00] solve those little stressors.

But first you have to be able to identify what stressors are. When I ask people what their work stressors are, they say my manager, drama, politics, they can't be there. It's hard to get really specific on what it is that's actually the stressors, and there may be several, but the better that you get, the skill, I think, that you build, kind of like muscle, the better that you get at like pinpointing exactly what the stressor is and then finding a potential solution or seeing if there's even a possible solution for it, whether it's your control or you pulling in someone else to help you with it, right?

The better off that you're going to be building those resources because of the demands that you're experiencing. So that's just one example, but prioritization and just getting really good at that is another good one. You know, time blocking, taking on healthy challenges, things that motivate you, but that are not necessarily.

Creating so much workload or demand leveraging collaboration or supportive, like [00:31:00] mentorship, you know, a manager that is supportive, things like that. So personal relationships can be an example, lots of different ways, uh, that you can kind of adjust, but like physical tangible resources is something that not a lot of people know that they can ask for or do to help themselves necessarily.

Sometimes it's viewed as. I shouldn't have to put forth more work to make my job easier. And I asked this to my clients in a job crafting like panel, you know, what would you say to people that think that as one of the examples was there was a new rollout of a system that was implemented and they didn't have a ton of training.

So one of my clients just decided to make her own one sheet. For herself and then showed it to her manager and then trained the rest of the team on it willingly. She wanted to, but some people would be like, why do, why do I have to do that? Why should I have to do that? But she knew that that would make the work not only [00:32:00] easier for her, but for everyone else, because now everyone was up to speed on the system and it just removes some of the stress.

So. If the mindset is I'm staying in this job and I want to make things better for myself, sometimes there are gonna be things that you just kind of take on to make your situation better. Whether or not you have to help anyone else's, you know, up to you. But looking at things like, you know, open the day, close the day.

Checklist, how you're approaching your actual workflow. You know, are you giving yourself time for deep work? Are you setting up your physical workspace in a way that works for you? If you can. A disclaimer with job crafting is I always say like you have to have some level of autonomy in your role in order to do this.

You also have to feel safe in the environment, you know, coming and sharing struggles, challenges, asking for resources. It's not just you coming to your manager and venting about your work stressors, but kind of also finding potential solutions or if you don't know them, asking. Has anyone else brought [00:33:00] this up?

Is there something we can do here? Can this tech team automate this thing that I'm putting the same piece of information in seven different places every single day? You know, just asking, getting creative with solutions. More often than not when people do this, the answer is yes, or we can try, or we can help, especially if you're in a supportive work environment.

And then it turns out that you're actually way more productive and happy as a result, and sometimes you know, Even if you're doing less work after the fact, it lends to like a promotion or recognition because you're showing up better and you're not as cynical and

Tara: Well, and I think too, it shows sense of like ownership over your role, which as a good manager, that would be a positive thing to see. Um, you know, I, I'm glad you highlighted the importance of like the autonomy, but also the, the safety piece. Cause I think to me, when I'm talking [00:34:00] with folks on like the decision of do I stay and try to like figure this out. do I go? If your answers are you don't have the autonomy, you don't have the physical, psychological, mental, whatever, to be able to implement some of these smaller changes than tough conversation, but this might not be the right place for you because

Kelsea: not worth it. Yeah,

Tara: control over your situation in that time.

So, and, you know, I like what you talk about, like, smaller things. It's almost like. You think back to like the self care and the vacation conversation, like a lot of people might dismiss these smaller shifts, like, Oh, this is not going to make much of a difference. But the way I kind of approach the conversation is, you know, in product development, you have this concept called design thinking. And so you come up with the, you know, first you figure out what are our problems that we're trying to solve. And I love how you [00:35:00] highlight, this is not an easy process to figure out. You can't just automatically list like. A few surface level things, you're really going to need to dig deep and I like to get folks like you immediately feel like a friction moment in your gut, write it down for me so that we can analyze it later and maybe try to get to the real stressor there. but with design thing, you know, you figure out your problem, then you kind of come up with these like. MVP is the minimum viable product so these different prototypes of potential solutions to that problem and you test them to figure out if they're going to sustainably for a long time and help to resolve the issue that's what I'm hearing from you is like, we're testing things out.

We're seeing what small tweaks you can make to your. role to the way you're working to your environment to see what's gonna really fit for you in the long term to hopefully bring you more success and [00:36:00] less stress and ultimately less burnout.

Kelsea: yeah. And sometimes people are trying things or they're trying to, you know, they're adding or, but it doesn't match the stressor. So if your community bucket is depleted. And you're not going and physically engaging with people or, you know, trying things even outside of work, you know, going and volunteering, or, you know, getting it in class or, you know.

Going out to dinner once in a while, like, it's not gonna feel the same effect if that's the bucket that has a hole.

Tara: And that's why it's so important to look at your values, to look at your strengths. And try to tie it all up into a nice bow, but really to, to try to figure out where, where are those misalignments, but then how can you tap into your values and strengths to, like you said, fill those buckets? Love that. So Kelsea, if you had a magic [00:37:00] wand could change one thing about how organizations approach burnout, what would it be and why?

Kelsea: This one's easy. I would waive it and essentially change the approach that most organizations are taking now, which is like the iframe approach, putting it back on the employee, putting it back on the individual thing. Here's an app. Here's a gym membership. You know, here's your EAP. Go, go talk to your therapist.

Here's a Friday off instead of acknowledging that it's actually majority of the time systems and processes in the organization. Maybe people bad apples occasionally that are contributing to this work stress. So understanding that. It's a systemic thing. And while there may be some people that are more prone to burnout, you know, those high achievers type A women, perfectionistic tendencies.

Yes, we know that [00:38:00] even some fields that are more prone to burn out, potentially, it's not it touches everyone. And so when it's doing that, and when 75 percent of the workforce has reported burnout, at some point, you can't just say there's something wrong with everyone. You have to look at how the systems in the actual workplace are being executed and how those values of the company are being operationalized throughout the employee experience.

That's something that I think not a lot of companies really touch on, you know, from hiring and onboarding to offboarding and everything in between. How are the company values infused in this process so that we can make sure we're maintaining alignment with something. There's always going to be outliers, but that would be.

The biggest change, in addition to educating leadership specifically and frontline managers, what the difference between burnout and other mental health illnesses, kind of like what I touched on at the beginning, because a lot of people really just don't know that it's work stress [00:39:00] or what it actually is, or that maybe therapists sometimes are not the most equipped to handle some of these things.

If I could implant an organizational psychologist in every business, I would do that.

Tara: I, um, I call it a chief balance officer. Like, if, if you have

Kelsea: Can

Tara: like, yeah, you have HR folks and you have, like, workplace well being, but if you have someone there, that's really intentionally focused on how these things are interplaying and doing having a continuous pulse check on. The conditions and the environment and, all that, that, that could really make a huge difference. Not just for employees, but like you said earlier, like for the organizations, because it does lead to retention. It has a positive impact on your profits, which I am also a firm believer that a company and organization can be profit first and people centered at the same time, and they should be [00:40:00] because your people run your profits.

Kelsea: correlate.

Tara: Yeah. You don't, you don't have the people. You definitely don't have the profits. That's for sure. Yeah.

Kelsea: Yeah, yeah, or not for long at least.

Tara: Right, right.

Kelsea: I think, yeah, the organizational, like, and systemic outcomes like down to the strategic planning, how you're planning what processes are included. What projects you're taking on, the clients that you serve, all of that needs to be addressed at the very foundational level to even touch employee well being, because if you're just throwing out programs, it's not going to be helpful.

Same thing, like, if you're not actually embodying those things, which I think is just such a, I don't know why it's such a massive disconnect, honestly, but I do also think a lot of people focused on employee wellness. Or well being with the best of intentions, and I love them, and I think that they're so needed, but also they're missing that organizational and like strategic lens, so [00:41:00] that's why I'm not a therapist anymore.

Tara: Well, you know, I think it comes down, like you said, to how you're framing the solution and thinking about it. Are you thinking about it on an individual level? And that doesn't just mean employees, but individual, like, the organization itself. And if you saw that as an entity, like, how is that important? Solving this issue versus the more systemic of organizational perspective from the higher level. And I think, you know, it's, it's hard work. It's not easy, which I think is why often just brushed aside and kind of put under the rug.

Kelsea: Yeah, massive changes needed.

Tara: Yeah, at the end of the day, though, I think it does make the work easier in the long run, because if you're more aligned, things are just going to run smoothly.

And maintenance is a much better phase than a fixing phase. if you can keep staying at that maintenance level, I think would [00:42:00] be more successful. So we

Kelsea: Yeah,

Tara: you know, alongside our other colleagues to really make this become a reality.

Kelsea: hopefully.

Tara: Well, I know we're going to wrap up here, but I have one final question for you that I also ask every podcast guests. So

Kelsea: All right.

Tara: is all about balanced living with bad ass results, hence being called the balanced bad ass podcast. So Kelsea, how do you define being a balanced bad ass in your own life?

Kelsea: I love the name. When I think about it, it's someone that is doing it all but not at the expense of their well being. It's like truly because they want to. So on one hand, it's saying yes to things that are in alignment, that are motivating, that are empowering, that maybe do stretch you a bit, but also being able to say no to the things that aren't with confidence.

Um, [00:43:00] and I describe this. Like distinctly, there's a difference between having a busy life and having a full life. And I always just aim to have a full life. So I am stretched. I do do a lot of things. Uh, you know, mom, business owner, military spouse, PhD, whatever, you know, whatever it is. But those are things that fill my cup and that I want to do that enhance my life and I'm not doing or taking on and I have very firm boundaries around anything that drains my energy, people, processes, business, whatever it is.

And I think that that's pretty bad.

Tara: Yeah. I would say so too. I love that. It's probably one of my favorite definitions so far. Well Kelsea, thank you so much for sharing your expertise, your perspective, your knowledge on burnout prevention. I really do appreciate you taking the time be here and to chat with me and [00:44:00] educate our listeners on burnout prevention. workplace values, job crafting, all the good things. And so before we wrap up though, I want to make sure, can you let our listeners know the best way to connect with you and to learn more about your work?

Kelsea: Yeah. Thanks. Uh, I enjoyed this. This is a fun conversation. I don't know if I could say it better than you did at the beginning, honestly, but I am the seamless coach on all the things. So Instagram, Tik TOK threads, LinkedIn. That's, that's where you can find me. Um, I do one on one coaching with individuals.

I also do embedded coaching with organizations and then I do values work with organizations to kind of how summarizing everything that we mentioned here. Speaking is also. On my list of things that I enjoy doing. I do it at least once a quarter. So I enjoy traveling or doing workshops in that sense, too, in the moment.

That's kind of what we have going on. I am going on maternity leave in March.

Tara: Yeah.

Kelsea: Pregnant again. Yeah. [00:45:00] But other than that, I would love to connect. Come find me. I mostly on LinkedIn or Instagram. So let's chat.

Tara: Awesome. I'll be sure to include all of Kelsea's information in the show notes so folks can dig deeper into all of your incredible resources and connect with you. if this episode resonated with you, I would love it if you could share it with a friend or a colleague who's just been feeling that strain of burnout lately. Don't forget to subscribe to the balanced badass podcast. And also if you love us, leave a quick review cause it helps to bring these conversations to even more people who need them. remember that burnout isn't something that you have to endure alone. You've got folks like Kelsea, you've got me in your corner here to help you and support you. And it's never too late to take back control. Even as we said, just one little piece of control. So take care of yourself, friend, and I'll see you in the next step. So.